Hey there friends. It’s me drew Manning your host of the Fit to fat to fit experience podcast. Thank you guys so much for tuning in today. I’m also the creator of fit2fat2fit.com. My crazy Fit to fat to fit journey, where I intentionally gained 75 pounds on purpose in six months, and then lost it again in six more months, but gained a whole new perspective. It was a truly humbling experience, learned so many valuable lessons along the way, and give me a whole different perspective when it comes to health and fitness and transformation, where I focus more on the mental, emotional side of, of transformation instead of the physical. Now, anyways, thank you guys. Once again for tuning in each and every week to the podcast. If you guys haven’t yet, please go to iTunes and subscribe to our podcast. I would definitely appreciate that a lot. If you did that and also leave me a review, you know, if you like it, leave us a five star review if you don’t like it.
Um, well, I am sorry about that. Something’s wrong with you? Just kidding. Um, no, leave us a review either way. I’d love to hear what you guys think of the podcast and how I can make it better for y’all. I try and deliver high quality content each and every week. Uh, today’s guest is this guy named Jason Whitlock. He has a very popular YouTube channel and, uh, I was contacted by a couple of my followers. You know, as you guys know, I I’m a big fan of the keto diet. I don’t consider myself an extremists, you know, and try and preach it and say, this is the one true way. But anyways, some of my followers said, Hey, you gotta reach out to this guy. He did this crazy experiment with eating 4,000 calories a day on the keto diet and lost weight over the course of 21 days, even though he was eating a calorie surplus.
So, um, yeah, I looked into it and you got to check it out on YouTube. Um, but anyways, we kind of dive into it. Jason went rock. He’s a, you know, I’m a fitness model physique guy. He won the bodybuilding.com spokesperson of the year, I think a few years ago and kind of took off that took off his fitness career for him. And he’s a sponsored athlete and things like that. Anyways, I wanted to have mana talk about his experiment a little bit kind of how he got into the keto diet and you know, the, the details of how he does it. And, um, the things he’s learned over the years from his kind of crazy experiment, if you will, and what he’s learned with the keto diet and how he helps people out, you know, embrace the keto diet as a lifestyle change instead of just another fad diet.
So you definitely want to stick around to listen to this interview with Jason wet rock before we do though, have you guys checked out my keto program yet? Ever since I was on the dr. Oz show last year, people have been asking for some type of keto program for me and I just didn’t have it in place. I didn’t know, you know, how I wanted to present it to people. Well, I finally have one, if you go to quito.fit to fat to fit.com, it’s a 60 day intro to keto program. Very simple to follow very basic. Um, I just try to keep us simple as possible with like the easiest recipes to make, right? No weird ingredients, just simple foods that you can make a, you know, you can go to your local Walmart if you want to and get the ingredients. Um, and, uh, there’s no fancy recipes or anything like that, but the food tastes good.
The food tastes really good. So 60 days, um, where I kind of hold your hand throughout the process, kind of teach you how to do the keto diet. Cause there’s a lot of information out there and there’s a lot of controversy of, you know, how to do it correctly and incorrectly and it can get confusing. So it’s just very basic the S the, the, uh, intro to Quito 60 day program, check it email@example.com is just a downloadable PDF. I think it’s a $37. Um, and, uh, yeah, I would appreciate this port you guys, uh, before we jump into the episode with Jason Whitlock, let’s give a shout out to our show sponsors because without them, this podcast would not be possible. Our first show sponsor is quest Kito. My friends over at quest nutrition have created a subdivision called quest Quito, which focuses on, uh, keto foods.
And they do what quest does best, and that’s make these foods taste delicious. So they have all sorts of frozen meals that will deliver they’ll deliver it to your doorstep. And they have things like pizza. They have things like Abe muffins. They have a bacon tomato bisque soup, um, which is one of my favorites. They have the most amazing seminar that you will ever have in your life. And yes, it’s keto friendly. So which means it’s high, fat, moderate protein, low carb, uh, which is what you want, but the taste is amazing with all of their meals. They have other things like, um, you know, chocolate bars and, uh, peanut butter cups and things like that that are also keto friendly, which tastes amazing as well. Make sure and go show them some love on social media, go their website and order some of their food definitely tried out quest kito.com.
Our next show sponsor is dropping an F bomb.com. What is dropping F bomb? We’re not talking about the cuss word. We are talking about fat bombs. Um, if you are a fan of the Q a day, you know that one of the hard parts is getting enough fats. So, uh, that’s one of the mistakes that people make is they don’t embrace the fat enough. And then it’s hard to get in enough fats. It’s easy to get in carbs and protein because that’s what we’ve been eating most of our lives, but eating enough fats can be difficult for some people. So drop an F bomb. These guys make these single serving packets of, you know, high quality fats, anything from olive oil, coconut oil, MCT oil, avocado oil, uh, they have macadamia nut butters that you can bring with you that are the single serving packs that you can take on the road and the car on the plane.
I’m in the office. You just open them up and they’re just one single serving of high quality fats. So they help you get in your fats for sure. Uh, so definitely check them out. If you guys want to discount you use my code fit to add, to fit. Obviously that’s my code for almost any website, just enter in my code fit, right fit, or go to drop an F bomb.com for slash fit to fat, to fit for 10% off of these high quality fats. Our last show sponsor is my friends over at Organifi. Uh, if you have been following for a while, you know, I’m a big fan of not just macronutrients, but micro nutrients, more importantly. So vitamins, vitamins, minerals, and phytonutrients. And, uh, yes, I do eat most. I do eat vegetables, a lot of vegetables, uh, trying to get in those micronutrients, but organic makes it easier.
Especially if I’m traveling, I don’t have access to vegetables, vegetables all the time. It’s not a substitute for vegetables. It’s a supplement that you add into your diet, just for extra insurance. In my opinion, that’s kind of what I, how I explain it to people. It is by far the best tasting powdered green supplement that you’ll find out there. I’ve tried a lot of them over the years for me. I can, you know, I can handle, you know, the ones that don’t taste as good, but I know a lot of people want to start when they’re starting out with a new lifestyle, they want something that actually tastes good. Check out organifi.com. Use my coat fit about fit, obviously, and get a discount, 20% discount on their products. They have the powdered greens and single serving pouches if you want, or they have the, you know, the, you know, tub with a scooper. If you want to do that as well, they also have a turmeric capsules and they have a probiotics, which I love as well. And I think they just recently launched, uh, some of their, uh, plant based protein powder with probiotics in it. And I’ve heard it tastes really, really good. I haven’t tried it yet, but check them out. organifi.com forward slash fit to better fit. Alright, you guys, let’s go hang out with Jason Whitlock.
Isn’t white rock. Welcome to the show, man. How are you doing? I’m doing awesome, man. Thanks very much for having me. I’m excited to talk with you. Yeah, man. I’m excited to have you on man. I’ve watched some YouTube videos and um, uh, just for all the listeners, how we got connected was one of my followers kind of mentioned you to me. And I have seen, I’ve seen you before, like, you know, your face has been around your body too, like on a magazine, this stuff. So I’m like, I know this guy. And so like, I started watching some of your YouTube videos. I’m like, man, this stuff is crazy. So, and as you know, I’m I like crazy experience experiments myself. Yeah. So it’s cool that we get to talk to each other. I’ve uh, I followed your fit to fat to fit journey and some of the other stuff you’ve done.
So respect the heck out of you, man. And, um, it’s pretty cool. Yeah. Thanks man. So where, so where do you reside? Uh, I’m actually in Cincinnati, Ohio, and that’s where I was born and raised. Yup. I went to Ohio university and I’m here. And since he ever been to Cincinnati, I haven’t man. I’ve been, I lived in the Midwest for about three years and it was just too cold for me. You’re in, where are you at? You’re in Arizona. I’m in Utah. Oh, you’re in Utah. Okay. Yeah. So, but I lived in Chicago for about three years and it was really cold, but um, it’s, you know, I’ve actually never been to Ohio. So one day it may be a great state. It’s a great state man. Good people. That’s awesome. And so you have, you said an eight month old, right? Yeah, I do pact
And he’s actually nine months old now he’s, uh, he’s taken four or five steps. He’s training real hard to walk and he’s got me nervous. This is your first kid. Yeah. It’s our first kid. He’s a, he’s been a handful. He had super colic, um, for the first six months of his life. So, but he’s finally out of it and I’m enjoying being a father. So you’re also a father. You have two beautiful young girls. I see.
Yeah. Two daughters. Um, and you know, what’s interesting, like I respect the hell out of anybody in the fitness industry that has kids because to keep up your fitness while all you have kids is way harder than when you’re single or married with no kids because you can’t, you know, they’re, your kid is the priority and they don’t, they don’t work around your schedule. Exactly.
A lot of the fitness stuff like trying to rise to the top and this whole fit nuts, whole fitness model game. And, you know, the competitions I was doing back then, you know, year or two ago, and it’s an extremely selfish endeavor. Um, and uh, once you have a kid, it completely changes your perspective on everything. You start kind of seeing fitness, like in a more well rounded type of way. And it’s like, you know, when I started shooting videos, when my son was born, I was all of a sudden thinking, wow, he’s going to see this stuff one day. You know what I mean? So, but yeah, I totally agree, man. Um, you know, nothing like being a father that’s for sure though. Well, that’s cool,
Man. I kind of want to dive into that a little bit later. Let’s back up a little bit, kind of introduce you, you know, your journey to where you are today to my followers, kind of want to get a feel for your background a little bit.
Yeah, definitely. Um, so I’ve kind of been in the fitness industry, not too long, actually. Uh, since I was about 28, 29 years old, I’m 35 years old now, um, started off as just a trainer, um, at a gym, you know, just grinding, you know, one client after the next, after the next. And then kind of realized I wanted to try and find a way to reach more people. So I started getting into, um, the social media stuff. I did competitions, um, early in my career because I kind of saw that as, you know, one of the only ways you could kind of get sponsored and all this other stuff, you know, people just kind of say I’m going to compete so I can get famous and get sponsored and make millions of dollars, all this other stuff. Um, you know, so I just kind of did it out of necessity, had some success with it.
Um, and then I kinda got my big break, uh, because I did the bodybuilding.com spokesmodel search and, um, got on team bodybuilding.com. And that of course changed my life forever. It also kind of validated what I was trying to do, you know? Um, and then from that point, um, things just started happening for me. I started getting some good exposure. Um, I got signed with EAs, um, kind of kept doing my daily, uh, you know, gym training and things like that. And I had an opportunity actually to, uh, work with kids that suffer from mental illness. And, um, so these are kids that have like, uh, schizophrenia, um, they’re cutters kids that have tried to commit suicide and things like that. And so I did a lot of work with them actually in Atlanta, Georgia, and that’s actually where I was introduced to the ketogenic diet as well.
Um, what year was that? Uh, that was 2013. Okay. Yeah. And I actually just, yeah, it actually dabbled with it. Um, you know, cause I had saw they were using it as a protocol to, you know, help all these kids with, you know, neurological stuff and treating bipolar, um, and all of that. So, but I wasn’t really at a stage, I was super in like my competition phase, so I like Kenny came across it, but I wasn’t willing to jump off the cliff and try it, you know? Um, but, uh, but obviously clearly that’s changed. Um, yeah. And so now I’m just kind of, I’ve just focused on primarily on the ketogenic diet, helping people lose weight. I think a lot of people see me, my physique and all this stuff and they kind of just pigeonhole me into like the body builder type stuff.
But my real passion is kind of helping people lose weight. The average person that’s just out there, like my neighbor type of stuff. Um, so I don’t do Connell do competitions anymore. Um, mainly just because I didn’t really, you know, I, uh, didn’t really care about it that much anymore, to be honest, I, I really was kind of disgusted with the whole thing. Um, and it, like I said, it was kind of turning people off the people I was trying to reach, you know, then the mainstream average person it was. So yeah. So that’s me, man.
No, that’s really cool. I kind of want to go back to your, the bodybuilding.com thing. Cause my buddy Steve cook, I think that’s how he got started as well. Yeah. You know him or her. Yeah. So yeah, we went to college together and uh, Oh really? Yeah. Then I saw that he won that. And then from there it just kind of, you know, obviously he’s blown up since then and things like that, but it’s pretty cool that they have that. And you can kind of use that as a platform, you know, in the fitness industry to get sponsors and to get your face out there. Right.
And I really like, you know, I’m not just shamelessly promoting bodybuilding.com here, but uh, you know, I really like, you know, when you, when you sign up for it and they do it every year, they have this competition every single year. And you know, when you first get into the competition, you treat it like any other competition or getting on stage. Cause there is like a stage component. Um, but the whole process was really awesome because they care more about who you are as a person where you came from your, your real passion to help people, you and I both know there’s tons of shredded people and they, you know, they’re like, but they don’t give a damn about people. They just care about themselves. And so bodybuilding.com is very good at weeding those people out and you kind of quickly realize, okay, this is cool. Like not everybody in the fitness industry is super superficial. Um, and so just people like Steve cook, you know what I mean? Um, he looks the way he does, he’s, he’s a total athlete, but he genuinely actually cares and dedicates his life to helping people. So yeah. So it’s been a good fit for me. So what was your, what was your diet
Like back then? Just the typical bodybuilding diet.
Yeah. So I’m a former wrestler. So before I got into the fitness industry, I was just like the calorie counter under eating, you know, all of this, all the craziness. Um, and when I got into the fitness industry, I started working with people like to lose weight. And I was like, man, I don’t really understand. I’ve never really had a problem. You know, I’ve always been lean, you know, I’ve never really had a problem. So, you know, it was easy for me to just be like, yeah, just, you know, count your calories, just eat less and work out more. Right. Yeah. And I started doing more research because I felt guilty. I’m like, man, I don’t really understand this stuff. And came across Gary Taubes who really literally changed my life with one book, uh, why we get, why we get fat. I highly, highly, highly recommend that book to anybody listening.
Um, after reading that book, it completely changed. Um, my understanding of why people get fat. And then I got into the competitions and was kind of, um, it was, it was verified when you see all the competitors cutting cards right before competitions. Um, so that’s what I did. I just went straight out and cut carbs dramatically. And I lived a low carb existence for like three or four years straight. Um, because I was so concerned with always staying lean with my two sponsors. They could call me up at any point in time. So I always felt like I had to be ready at all costs and cutting carbs was the only way to go. And I have to admit like I suffered dramatically. Like it was, you know, man, like I didn’t know any better. All I was doing 30, 30 grams of carbs or less, and then shoved as much protein down my throat as possible. So I don’t lose muscle was how I operated for like three or four years. Um, and so I tried all different strategies when it came to cutting cards, I just cut carbs. And I was like, Oh, I can’t do this. Maybe I’ll try carb. Backloading Dan was like, and then I was like, okay, well maybe I’ll try carbs cycling. So I was trying to find the magic bullet within the low carb realm. And then finally I came across the ketogenic diet and problem solved. Yeah.
What’s so interesting from an outside perspective, right? Like the average person that doesn’t know a lot about like the physique industry or modeling industry is like, um, they look at you and they’re like, dude, what’s wrong. Like you’re ripped. Like that’s all that matters. Like, you know, but on the inside you’re suffering and you’re miserable.
I got to keep relationships just like you, man. You know, like it’s, it totally messes with your mind. And you see a lot of these competitors who dramatically cut carbs right before shows and they’re complete assholes. Like you don’t want to talk to them two weeks, three weeks before a show. And then as soon as the show is over, they go back to high carb diets like there that you can’t, they can’t really live that way. You know, it’s just a momentary peak type of thing for a day. And I was trying to do that for years.
Yeah. But I think what I think some people like from the outside look at it as like we’re so focused on the parents and I think that is success. That’s like the ultimate finish line. Like that’s what I want. That’s what I want to get to. And then I could be happy, right? When in reality, so many people, you know, that might have a six pack, you know, are miserable, like suffering on the inside. And they, you know, they still have issues of body image issues, even though they have a perfect body, what does that equate to happiness? And so that’s why I try and get across to people is, is that it’s not about weight loss. It’s not about a physique. It’s so much more than just what your body is.
It’s I totally 100% agree with you. And it’s about reaching your own full potential and really kind of taken a hard look at yourself and saying, I can do better and marching down that path, you know, and kind of overcoming the obstacles. Like the superficial stuff you’ll find is it’s only, it’s, it’s very temporary when it comes to satisfaction. Um, you know, it there’s so much more involved with it. Like you said, being happy, feeling good, feeling, more confident about yourself. Um, and I feel like a lot of that gets taken away when you compare yourself on social media at all these, all this crazy stuff that you see. But, but, um, yeah, it’s, it’s just about reaching your full potential man. And uh, so I’m right there with you on that.
Yeah. So, um, let’s talk a little bit about your transition over to ketosis. Cause I think a lot of people equate sometimes ketosis to just low carb. When in reality it is a big difference between low carb and doing a, a sh a true ketogenic diet. Talk a little bit about the difference between those two
Fat component is the number one thing. Um, you know, when I first, when I kind of, I’ve kind of figured out and talking to people about the ketogenic diet, that it’s, it’s mostly, the first component is, you know, getting people to understand that carbohydrates are what is causing you to gain weight. Um, and if you go talk to your neighbor right now and they know nothing, they’ll just go and say, well, you know, fat accumulation is just behavioral it’s you got to work out more and eat less. Um, no matter what you’re eating and all this other stuff. So first you have to understand that the carbs are the enemy. Once you conquer that, then you have to go over the next obstacle, which is convincing people that you’re supposed to be eating fat and lots of it. And that’s what your body really wants to draw energy from. So in that way, the ketogenic diet focuses more on switching your entire mentality towards I’m going to start burning fat for energy instead of, instead of carbs. And then obviously keeping the protein at a moderate level is important as well, mainly because protein also spikes insulin. Yeah.
I think, I think, you know, from the people that I’ve talked to, they, um, yeah, they don’t understand that, that you’re switching fuel sources in a way, right? So most of us grew up, you know, in the seventies or eighties or nineties eating carbohydrates as our main fuel source. That’s what we were taught. And, um, you know, kinda like you said, the, you know, carbs are really what causes us to hold onto our, our fat. And I kinda tell people when I did my fit fit experiment, I ate a low carb diet. 90% of the time I was eating sugary cereals and sugary sodas and juices and chips, cookies, crackers, granola bars, all these highly processed foods. I mean, reality, you look, you look at them, they’re all kind of low on fat. Um, once a week I would do kind of like a crazy man versus food. High-fat like, you know, type of, uh, type of a meal like that is just stuff my face. But 90% of the time it was, it was, um, you know, low fat foods. And I gained 75 pounds in six months.
That’s the thing. And there’s insulin resistant. Everybody’s different in terms of how insulin resistant or insulin sensitive they are. Trust me, my man, I can get away with eating lots of carbs and genetically I will not get fat straight up, straight up just genetically. Uh, but I could eat a bagel and not have an issue with it. Somebody else that might be insulin resistant could eat that same bagel. And they’re in fat storage mode for three hours while the blood sugar and insulin levels start coming down. Like it’s, it’s all about spiking. The insulin insulin is really the primary driver of fat accumulation. So, um, and the good thing about fat obviously is it does not cause an insulin response of course. And so it really all of this, all of this whole game, this whole thing comes down to insulin resistance. Um, and as you get older, it becomes more and more difficult. You become less and less tolerant to the carbohydrates. So,
Yeah. And what’s so interesting about incident resistance too, that I’m kind of learning now is, is not all carbs are created equal to each individual person, right? Like for example, I read a rebel, this new book wired to eat, and he kind of talks about seven day carb tests where basically for seven days you test out different carbs and you test your glucose before and after and see which carbs kind of cause you to spike. And for him versus his wife, like he could eat a banana and his insulin will spike, you know, through the roof. But then he had a cookie and it wasn’t that bad. And so, you know, it was 50 grams of carbs at each time and he would do the, the, um, the glucose meter to see what it was. And, you know, we all respond to different carbs differently and that’s how, you know, each person’s totally different. And like you said, you could have a bagel and you’re not gonna, you probably won’t accumulate a ton of fat where someone else it’s like, you know, that’s a little bit different.
Yeah. Straight up there, which is why I never was like, okay, I’m going to go and just tell people that can eat carbs because I can eat. And then beef completely fine. Now I just, you know, it’s just not that way for the majority of people. Um, you know, the majority of people cannot tolerate the carbs.
So, so I kinda want to dive into your transition over to the ketogenic diet because mentally you had to have been a little bit freaked out, like, man, I’m going to lose my physique. My paycheck
Depends on me being in peak physical condition year round hell yeah. I was scared to death. I remember the very first time I put butter in my coffee. I was like, I’m either, this is either going to be the best thing ever. I’m going to die and be out of job.
Very scary, just like it is for everybody, you know? Um, uh, but once those physiological effects start happening and you start seeing results, you kind of, the fear level goes down. And so once I went, um, I never went back and that was about a little over a year ago and it’s, it completely changed everything for me. You know, my career was all of a sudden sustainable, you know what I mean? Like I was actually happy doing what I was doing and, and, and I saw it as an opportunity to really kind of, you know, um, cause when you fight against carbs before, and you know, I waged this war on carbs, you know, I was telling people, my, my clients back then a few years ago, just go low carb. You know, they were all miserable now. I was like, okay, great. Here’s the real answer. You’re not going to feel miserable and screw the cards. Like, you know what I’m saying? Um, and so, so yeah, it was a pretty quick transition cause I had already conquered the, the cards. Like I already declared them as the enemy. I already defeated them in my own head. I knew to avoid them. Um, and then it was just a matter of embracing the fat and kind of going down that road and then, um, and then there was no stop and maybe bro,
That’s funny. Embrace the fat toilet. Yeah, totally. That’s it hashtag
You really do have to embrace the fat because I see a lot of people who embark on this keto thing and they’re so focused on cutting the cards, right. Because that’s like the major enemy that’s, what’s making me fat and without even realizing it, they think they’re getting enough fat, but they’re not. Um, you know, if you think about it, you grow up your whole life, fearing fat, like, you know, all this other stuff. And so, um, I see a lot of people who are still not getting enough for the fat and you know, you can run into some problems without getting enough fat, obviously.
Yeah, exactly. Cause then they’re, then they’re on a low calorie, low carb and that’s not always fun.
God, he’s just kind of confused. It doesn’t really know what the hell is going on. Like what are we burning for energy here? You know? Then it might even start taking some of the protein and burn in that as well. So, um, so yeah, embrace the fat
Braced, the fat like that. So, uh, what were some, what were some things you noticed, I mean, switching over to fetish or fuel source, I mean you were already in good shape before like all of a sudden and better shape or was it just mental clarity?
Yeah, it was the, it was the energy levels. It was, it was mostly the mental clarity. Yeah. But you know, coming from just more sustainable, even keel energy. Um, cause remember I was contrasting it to being adjust on a super low carb diet, you know, like being miserable. Um, so that’s the first thing I noticed was, um, the even keel energy, the mental clarity, I felt happier as weird as corny as that sounds like I really did. Like my mood was better. Um, it still is to this day. Um, you know, when it came to physiological changes, obviously, um, you know, I didn’t really, I got leaner, but um, I was already at a point when I started the ketogenic diet because I had been low carb for so long. I had very low body fat, I think anyways. Um, I also noticed though that I was able to build back some of the muscle that I’d lost doing just straight, low carb. Um, so I, I noticed over time that, Hey, you know, I’m staying super lean and I’m not losing any muscle whatsoever. Um, I remember distinctly being like, yo, that’s crazy. Cause you know, it’s, it’s impossible to build muscle on just a straight, low carb diet. You kind of see yourself dwindle away.
Yeah. And that’s the biggest fear I think for people, for most people is like, you can’t build muscle without carbs basically. You know, I don’t want to, I still want to put on muscle, so I don’t want to,
That’s the number one question I get, man is the number one question I get, um, you know, there’s a great guy, Jacob Wilson, you should look into getting him on the podcast.
He’s come on already. So he’s good
Fully solve that for everybody. I’m not going to get into it. Um, but uh, yeah, you can then the most important thing is it’s um, you know, it preserves lean muscle for me, at least that was the most important thing. Yeah.
Let’s uh, let’s dive into some of your key to experimentation a little bit like a calories in versus calories out. Let’s talk about that.
There we go. Uh, yeah. So the, the 21 day 4,000 calorie experiments. Yep. Um, so I was actually at the low carb USA conference, um, and overheard some conversations about people, researchers doing, uh, an overfeeding study and I just couldn’t get it out of my head, man. I was just kind of like, I gotta try this, you know what I mean? It’s just, this is this I, you know, cause I’m always railing against calories in calories out. So let’s see what happens. Let’s put myself to the test. So I just decided to do it and I’ve logged every single day doing it, which was actually the most, the hardest part of the challenge. Um, and uh, you know, it came out at the end of it. I think I lost two pounds, which was mind blowing to me. I have to admit, you know, when I, when I, when I first started the challenge, I was at like an all time low of one 48, I’d been doing a ton of traveling.
And I just was like, man, you know, usually I walk around at like one 55 somewhere around there. So I was like, okay, I figured I’ll get back up to one 55, which is where I’d been for a long, the longest period of time. The most I’ve ever weighed was one 60 a long time ago. So I’m like, there’s no way. And there’s no way I’m going over one 60. Let’s hope I get to one 55 and you know, and then people will say, Oh, I told you calories in calories out was true. Right. Um, but uh, you know, it didn’t happen. Um, and throughout the entire experiment, you know, I’m explaining to these people every single day what’s going on and I don’t have an answer like gun literally like Hmm, mind blown myself. Um, I did a body fat percentage test, which I pretty much regret doing in the first place.
Uh, and, um, so that came out like two tents lower. So there was no real change there. Um, regret that, uh, because I don’t, I don’t care about my body fat percentage, contrary, most people I get and I’ve always had that question, asked all the time and I never, ever, ever, I just refuse to do it because I don’t care. Like I look, I, I measure myself on how I look in the mirror, how my clothes fit, how I feel about myself. You’re not, I’m not going to walk up to you drew and you’re going to be like, Oh dude, you must be 5.2% body fat. Right? Like it doesn’t work like that. I don’t know. It’s just a number and not to mention, you know, I throw, I throw that out there on social media and you know, people do what they want with it. I mean, I’ve had some people on videos quit after the whole challenge. I did the body fat percentage thing and I see videos of people making about me like, Oh, you know, that’s not possible. And he’s almost dead. And like, Oh, it’s like, like I went and cheated or something. Cause I didn’t do a deck. So I did one of those bod pod tests. So it just, it distracts from the real point. Let’s just put it out.
Okay. That makes sense. Yeah.
Yeah. So I don’t know.
Sure. Are you eating how many calories were eating before?
Um, on average, probably around 1800 to 2000. I don’t, I never, I never tracked. So that’s, that’s kind of a total guess. Um, I follow the ketogenic diet instinctively. Um, so some people call it lazy Quito from what I’ve heard, I call it instinctively, you know, using the diet for its, for its best advantage that is you can eat when you’re hungry, you can start trusting yourself. So over. So I did track in the beginning and I was around 2200, like a year ago. And I realized, I realized like these are the types of foods I need to be eating. This is what it takes to get this much fat. This is what it, you know, and all of a sudden it’s like learning how to dance. So you’ve got to count the steps off in your head, like one step, two steps. And then over time you’re like, okay, I know how to dance. I got this. Like I don’t have to count steps off of my head anymore. So I had gotten myself to that point, um, leading up to the challenge. So I don’t know exactly how many calories I was eating before. I know it wasn’t 4,000 or anywhere near it.
Yeah, no, that’s, that’s actually, um, that’s actually really interesting your analogy about the dancing thing, because I kind of do the same thing. Like I, I have too much going on in my life to track my calories macros for the rest of my life. It’s just too tedious, but I do recommend people when they’re first starting out like, Hey, for the first week or two track it right now. And that way you kinda, you know, you’re learning the moves of the dance, if you will. And then from there you kind of know instinctively look, I’m pretty sure I’m in Quito. You know? So,
And the ratio is really important. I always highly recommend people just focus on that ratio. There is no, you can take this from me or you can not, but there is no magic calorie number out there. You don’t it’s, you know, the most important thing is focusing on that ratio and the ratio is different for most people personally, I follow 75% fat, 20% protein, 5% carbs. And when I got myself to a point to where I knew I could hit that ratio without tracking, I was not going to track because this is the other thing I had been dieting my whole life. Since I can remember, I’ve been dieting, bro. Um, and the ketogenic diet allowed me to say no more dieting. This is a lifestyle now like this is, I was all of a sudden able to lay my, my head on the pillow and forget that I was on a diet dude. It was like the most amazing, liberating experience of my life. Um, and if you want to know, if you’ve turned this into a lifestyle, you know, the day you forget you’re on a diet is the day you were successful. And so I wasn’t going to track every single day and I was able to, you know, find success with it. So to answer your, to answer your question, who knows how many calories I was taking then, but 4,000 calories was a bitch. That’s, that’s,
You’re eating so much. Right.
You know, I was eating a lot of fat, which has nine calories per gram, as you know, so a little bit easier.
Yeah. That’s, that’s really interesting. So what was like, what was the, I mean, cause you’re eating 2200 calories of, you know, ketogenic friendly food and then now you’re eating 4,000. You’re almost doubling that. What was like a typical day for you?
Oh man. Oh dude. They were, uh, they were all different. Um, I, I relied heavily on the oils, the oils big time. Like I would have been nothing without that. I was making double Quito coffees do it. So I was putting two tablespoons of butter. Two tablespoons of MCT oil is using heavy whipping cream a lot. Um, at one point I’d gotten, so I did a 2000 calorie shake because at one day there was one day where I was like so far behind. Um, and I was using a lot of almond butter. Um, gosh, it’s like painful. You should go back home and think about this right now. Um, you know, uh, the nuts and the seeds I was, you know, using those as what macadamia nuts. How could I forget? I swear to God, I don’t know if I would have been able to do it without macadamia nuts.
Yeah. And then I, then I started eating so many macadamia nuts that I was like forced to be creative. And I came up with like this chocolate covered macadamia nuts just to kind of cause they were so I couldn’t take them out of the diet. I had to find a way to make them bearable. Um, and then obviously shameless plug here. Uh, my sponsor EAs has the Myoflex keto shakes. So that was critical because I was able to drink my calories. And so those normally have like 400 calories in them. They’re the ratio is 75, 20 and five on him. But I was adding, um, almond butter. I was adding MCT oil. I was adding heavy whipping cream to those shakes every single day.
Wow. And were you working out the same as your workout routine? Exactly the same as it was before.
The interesting thing. And most people that either watch one or two videos and said, you know, they want to make a conclusion about it. They’re like, Oh, look at this dude. He must work out two times a day. All this other stuff he must have just went and did hours and hours of cardio to make this result happen. The truth of the matter is I couldn’t wait for the challenge to be over because my training suffered dramatically. And the main reason is because I was blogging every single day and it was so stressful. Um, I got an eight month old or, you know, like I got, it was, it was so stressful that it took away time from the gym and not to mention it was a chore to eat like every day if I went to, if I went only a few hours without eating, I was back to trying to have a 2000 calories shake. So I was training probably at the most three or four days a week. Honestly, it was, it sucked. But, um, I can relate to that, man. That’s really, really tough. I mean, as far as, I mean eating the calories, you know, I, I did my Fitbit 15 though, but that was years ago. But you know, the blogging thing, I did a 30 day challenge this past summer when I saw all my girls and that was it. I was up to like,
I am like editing and uploading.
I saw your last video. I saw your last video. Right. And you had to say, you are in the same mentality that I was in. Right. And it was like, I’m sitting here. I don’t even want to be doing it. I can’t even, I love you guys so much. And I’m so glad we did this, but I can’t wait to turn this camera off for the last time and, and just walk away and go back to being somewhat normal. I’m super glad and proud that I did it. And I hope people got a lot out of it, but that shit almost killed me, bro. Like every single thing that went in my every day, a single thing that went into my mouth. What was on camera? Yeah. Everything so interesting. And so what is your wife? Is she, was she there? Yeah, she was over it bro.
My whole life, my house turned into a studio and I had like, I had like studio lighting in my, in my living room because I had to shoot really late at night. So she was kinda over it as well. You know, it was, it was, it was worth it, but it was. And, and that is what ultimately kind of at the very end, wanted to get across to people is it’s not, no matter what your goal is, there’s going to be struggles. You’re going to have to make sacrifices. You know, that was my little sacrifice that I had to do. And there were days where I woke up and I was like, dude, I don’t feel like blogging today whatsoever. And you realize, you know, you have to, there’s no, you gotta find a way to get this done. And you know, and that’s really kind of the beauty of what it was for me in the end was just facing adversity, conquering it, adapting myself to such dirt, different situations, um, in order to reach my goal.
And everybody has to do that, no matter what your goal is, uh, and this game, um, that’s ultimately what it’s all about. So, you know, 84,000 calories a day for 21 days. So you did track those calories, right. To make sure you can watch every blog. I showed you everything. And trust me, I was held accountable for sure. Okay. I’m going to go back. I’m going to go back and watch the man, man, take a chance to watch all of them. But um, yeah. And then you’d be lost two pounds and you lost like 0.2% body fat, which is really, really interesting over 21 days, eating that much them, that many calories. Yeah. I know. I only weighed 148 pounds. So you would have thought, you know, and I’ve talked to some people, um, obviously everybody has their theories as to what happened and how that was possible and things like that.
Um, you know, I’ve talked to a few guys, is that mostly think that my metabolism sped up to kind of compensate for the increase in calories? Um, I PR I have my own opinion. Um, I, I, so I was supposed to, I did 75% fat, 20% protein, 5% carbs. And, uh, I realized very quickly that 20% would have been 200 grams of carbs every single day, or I’m sorry, protein, protein, protein. Yeah. I’m sorry. 200 grams of protein every single day. And that scared the hell out of me in the beginning. Cause I mean that I’ve never really taken that much protein and, and you know, I quickly realized as I’m like sharing my pie chart every single day, I’m like, dang, I’m at like 10%, 12% protein on average. So I wasn’t even, I wasn’t even coming close to 20% protein. And I honest to God feel like that’s the reason why I didn’t gain a bunch of weight or gain any weight at all.
Um, because, and I almost didn’t even do it. I didn’t do it on purpose. I was so focused on getting fat because that’s where I could get my biggest bang for the buck in calories. And the protein levels were always kept super, super low. And so I feel like that, um, you know, cut perfect prevented my body from secreting insulin. Cause like we talked about before protein does spike insulin and not to mention, you know, you can also blunt the insulin response of protein by adding fat to the meal. And any time I ate protein, there was way more fat. Um, and, and the meal. So personally I think that had a lot to do with it. So yeah. Did you test your blood ketones at all? Yeah, I did that. Yeah, I did. There was actually one video that I tested them that was, uh, removed really. Yeah. I’ll let you, yeah, it’s a long story. Um, but uh, yeah, I’m, I’m sponsored by, um, EAs and EAs is owned by Abbott who makes the blood ketone meters. Oh really? Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And uh, putting the blood ketone meters, um, is not in my contract.
Yeah. I didn’t know. I didn’t know. I didn’t know. But, uh, anyways, nonetheless. Yeah. And that was the other interesting thing was, um, and before that had only used, I actually had a kid tonics, you know, the breasts ketone analyzer up until that point. I was doing that, but I was like, these people, aren’t going to believe whatever that says, so I better do the blood test. Um, and, uh, so when I first started, I think I was at like 2.4, which was great, which was great, you know? And um, another time I did it, I was at 2.7 and then as a third time I did, it was like, I think the last week of it, I was at 0.3. Um, so that was interesting to see it go up. Um, even though I was taking in tons and tons of calories, so there didn’t seem to be any correlation between, you know, um, I was taking a lot of MCT oils and though as well, um, and I didn’t really notice any physiological difference though, between the 2.4 and the 3.3, you know, and, and you know, so I, you know, I think a lot and I feel like a lot of people get stuck on this.
Like, let me get my ketones as high as possible. Let me get that piece stick as dark as I possibly can, you know? And they, and they kind of measure their progress based on what those things read off. And I, you know, I was definitely not going to fall into that trap. Sure. 3.3 is great, but I feel just as good and, and still burning fat at 2.0 or 1.0 or whatever. Yeah. You know, I’m in ketosis, that’s all I care about. I’m in ketosis and I’m burning fat.
Yeah. And I think people get fixated on the numbers as well. Um, totally. You know, but there’s, there’s so much more to it than, than just what the number says on the blood ketone meter. I remember I did a seven day fast and I might never got above. I think 1.7 was the highest they got up to even during a seven day water fast. And I was taking exogenous ketones to try and work numbers, but it’s just, it never went up above 1.7 even after the seven days. So it was really interesting. And I think we all are different and you know, I know some people that have around four or five, I’m like, wow, man, you know, but I’ve heard between one and three. There’s no real. You don’t really feel any different. No, it’s not the most important thing.
It’s not. Yeah. It’s not at all, but people that could ruin people, I’m telling you, like, I first, when I first launched my program did my YouTube stuff. I was out there pumping the a P tests. Right. And yeah. And all of a sudden that shit backfired on me, man. I was like, cause all these people were like, Oh, you know, I’m fluctuating all over the place. And it plays games with their head. It makes them sinks. They’re not doing things right. They’re not doing this. Right. You’re doing everything right. As long as that stick changes colors. And as long as you’re above 0.5 millimolar is, are more, you’re doing the diet. Right. You know what I mean? Like, like you said, you were pumping exhaust and his ketones and couldn’t get over 1.7, you know, it’s, that’s not the competition. That’s not, that’s not the goal. That’s not the goal is, is getting up to, you know, 11.0 millimolar
Yeah. It’s like, it’s like another scale, you know, scales kind of play mind tricks with people and it fluctuates so much. And it’s like, we base our success on that number. When in reality there’s so much more to like, how do you look, how you feel, how you fit into your clothes? You know, those kinds of things are way more important. Absolutely not man. 100%. Well that’s cool, man. So I guess you don’t plan on ever doing that kind of experiment beginning. Yeah. Like one and done.
Let me out of a, it got, it took me away from what I love the most about the diet. And that was that I could do the diet without stressing about it, without thinking much about it, you know? And when I was done with that challenge, um, I felt like a caged animal. Like I felt like, I felt like all of a sudden I was on a diet again for the first time in a long time, you know, being so meticulous about this and that, and just totally overthinking so much stuff. And I lost my instincts, like, and it scared the hell out of me. I’m like, dude, how do I go back to what I was doing before? I feel like I lost, I was worried that cause I’ve always trusted myself when it comes to, to the eating. That’s, what’s good about the ketogenic diet.
When you get the signal to eat, you can trust that when you’re running on carbs, that you can’t trust that signal. You know what I mean? That’s like, let me go out and get some more drugs type of thing. Every three hours, your body’s like, Oh, let’s go score some more glucose with the KIDO, what the keto diet. That’s what I love the most. And when I was finished with the 21 day challenge, I was really afraid that I wasn’t, that, that, that impulse to listen to my body was going to be disrupted. Um, so finally I kind of got myself back to balance, you know, I felt like it took me a while to, um, at the end of my 21 day challenge. I’m like, alright guys, you know, I’m going to the auto classic. I’ll see you there. I was logged there and all that stuff.
Nope, didn’t happen. I could, I just simply couldn’t do it. I had to find balance again. I had to get myself back to a lifestyle like, you know, and so that’s, you know, it took me a little more time than I thought, but I’m back there now. So no more 4,000 calorie challenge. So, so with the keto diet, I mean, are you 100% always in, or is it like 90%? And then, you know, you go with your wife or a good question meal. Totally, totally. Yeah. So I, uh, do a cyclical, ketogenic diet. I have a program called keto cycle. You might’ve met her and that I’ve heard before. Um, and I personally do, um, a car day once every two weeks. Um, it doesn’t always end up being a carb day. Sometimes it’s a cheap meal. Um, I kind of just take it as it comes, uh, just as a way to kind of keep myself sane.
Um, you know, and, and like I said, keep it a lifestyle, go out with a wife, kind of indulge in whatever I feel like doing the very next day, get right back into it and, and kind of, and kind of just go that route because I mean, I I’m a realist. Okay. Like I’m, I, I’m not going to avoid carbs the rest, like the good carbs, like, you know, the cheat meal type stuff, the pizza for the rest of my life. Like, it’s just not gonna happen. That’s ideally, ideally, yeah. Everybody should live in ketosis for the rest of their life. Like never touch a carb again, but realistically it’s going to happen. So for me, I just said, okay, you know, I’ll plan it out and make sure that it’s controlled, make sure I, you know, don’t go overboard and, uh, you know, it kind of makes things a lot easier for me.
Yeah. And then what are some, you know, cause obviously you coach people, you know, getting into ketosis and you know, I understand that transition for some people. What are some of the biggest mistakes you see that people make, you know, doing the keto diet in the wrong way? In the very beginning? Yes. Not embracing the fat first and foremost. Um, you know, I think, um, I feel like people go out and they, Oh, the number one thing by far is the electrolytes by far like that is the number one killer of diet. Like it you’ll get ruined quick if you don’t focus on those. So sodium magnesium potassium sodium in my opinion is probably the most critical. Um, if you start feeling tired, dizzy, lethargic, get a headache, guess what your sodium levels are, rock bottom and you gotta, so you’ve got, and that’s the other thing was sodium.
As you grow up, you learn, Oh my gosh, sodium makes you bloated and makes you fat. All this other stuff gives you heart attacks, whatever else. So you kind of have this innate like resistance to sodium in general. So again, you feel like you’re getting enough sodium, but you’re not like they recommend like 4,000 milligrams. I don’t personally track sodium, but I do make sure I salt my food, eat salty snacks. And then I use chicken bras. Um, right now I use chicken broth as kind of like an emergency. Um, you know, if I start feeling tired, dizzy, lethargic, but when you’re first starting this diet, you, you just get in the habit of getting one cup of chicken broth every single day, better safe than sorry, because the KIDO slew is no joke. And that’s one of the things that brings it on quick is that, uh, and then potassium, you got your avocados Greenleaf, all that stuff.
You can do things like light, salt, new salt, um, basically like potassium salt, you can find in the salt aisle. And then of course, magnesium, um, is the final one. Um, you know, I think three to 400 milligrams, whatever the bottle says. Uh, but make sure you get that. I’m trying to think here. I feel like, um, for somebody that maybe doesn’t have a super active life, then this might be a little controversial for me to say, but you know, coming from like the fitness guy. Right. But I feel like some people that, you know, they’re very overweight and they don’t work out. They haven’t worked out in years. Right. And they want it, they discovered this diet. They’re super, super excited. And I’ve seen this a lot, which they’re super excited about the diet and they’re going to like change their life. So they’re going to start going to the gym and do all this other stuff, get themselves on this huge fitness program.
And they end up going to the gym and running themselves into the ground the first or second week. Um, and that’s a problem. I feel because there’s so many things that are changing physiologically when you switch to this diet, um, that, you know, if you go to the gym and run yourself into the ground, the first two weeks, it’s almost like two weeks for the body to handle. It’s like, it’s, it’s just overload city. So I feel like people, well, if you haven’t worked out, just kind of ease your way into it. I like to say, just kind of divide and conquer to conquer the diet first, get yourself active, you know, and kind of slowly work yourself into some, you know, fitness routine. I wouldn’t just go be super aggressive. You know, I haven’t worked out in three years now, I’m going to do two a days type of stuff.
Um, cause you, you will have a hard time recovering. Um, and so yeah, I just see a lot of people that that happens to, I mean, um, the diet is the most important thing. Um, just kind of, and you know, uh, when I’m trying to go back to your question and think, um, there’s a lot of information out there and when somebody decides they want to start this diet, chances are, they’ve seen my YouTube channel and about 50 other ones, they’ve read like three or four books and, you know, Don all these form Reddits and all this stuff. And it can cause a lot of confusion in the beginning. Um, you know, who’s right, who’s wrong. Uh, ultimately you have to basically stick the fundamentals. The fundamentals are the most important part, um, to, to focus on and, and accomplish. Then you can start worrying about different tactics here and there, but just start simple, embrace the fat, cut the carbs, keep the protein, moderate, start listening to your body and, and, you know, and, and, uh, and so keep it simple is my, my biggest, uh,
Thing from the beginning. Yeah. I like what you said, listen to the body. Cause that’s going to be the most important thing because you know, I’ve had people, you know, start the keto diet and you know, here’s the, here’s kind of a generic kind of ratio to fellow 70, 25, five or 75, 25. And then, but people kind of follow that religiously and try and stick to it. And they, you know, they go over one gram and then they kind of freak out or, you know, they, they read somewhere, well, it looks like here I can eat more protein than the 20%. It gets very controversial. And there’s all this misinformation out there, not misinformation, just different information. And it’s just confusing for different people. Exactly.
And it causes friction in the mind and it, it, most importantly, it just makes people doubt themselves and then they don’t get the results that they’re seeing. So, and so with this strategy of the ketogenic diet over, here’s getting, and then they’re, they’re all over the place. Next thing you know, they have no confidence and they don’t make it more than a week after that. Like, you know, um, I just really think that the, at the core of this diet is tackling the, the real culprit and what is making this country so damn fat. And that is the carbohydrates, the refined sugars, grains, and things like that. Like you’ve conquered that if you can do that, then who, that you’ve really won this game, if you can just do that. Um, so whether or not you’re at like 21% protein, 74% fat, whatever this many calories, how many calories you are preventing yourself from a, getting fat, be getting cardiovascular disease, heart attacks, strokes, all swimmers, cancer, you name it, all of these other things there. They’re linking to cards. You’ve won the game. So don’t stress about the little tiny things. Um, keep the cards down, know that you won the battle and then keep that fat up so that you can keep having energy to keep doing the diet.
Yeah. So I love that, man. Yeah. And that’s at the end of the day, I try and tell people is just become your own self experimentation with this, you know, find what works for you. Experiment do it for 30 days, 60 days, if you don’t feel great, then there’s, let’s change things up, find what works best for you. Um, and so that at the end of the day, I think that’s what I think people need to embrace is, is, is become their own self experimenter and find my best and what’s optimal for them, but absolutely,
But that requires patience. That requires, that requires patience and, and a positive attitude. And, and the ability to kind of when you’re at that place where you feel like you’ve hit a plateau. Cause I get a lot of that stuff too. Being able to kind of understand that you still have the right strategy. Okay. The strategy is, is correct. You might just have to change tactics here and there, but you can’t lose sight of, Hey, this, this, this diet is still working. Um, so, and it just takes pictures.
Yeah, man. Well, uh, Jason, we’re coming up on time here before we go kind of want to let you kind of tell people where they can find you online, your social media, your website, your YouTube channel, that and any upcoming events that you have, like, you know, that you’re going to be speaking out or be, you know, appearance appearances, those kinds of things.
Um, yeah, sure. So everybody can follow me on YouTube. Uh, it’s Jason Whitlock spelled w I T T R O C K. That’s where I do most of my stuff, Instagram as well. I don’t do Twitter and I barely do Facebook. So, um, you can find me on the social media stuff there. I, uh, you know, I just in closing, first of all, I appreciate this, uh, opportunity to talk with you. And, and I just feel like everybody out there should give the ketogenic diet a chance it’s very difficult, you know? Cause it goes against everything you’ve ever learned. And, and, and, but once you kind of embrace it, um, it really can change your life. You just gotta be open to new things, try new things out. Like you said, drew give it a shot. Like you got nothing to lose, man. If you’re out there, if you’re out there like in your severely overweight, in my opinion, it’s a tragedy that you’ve been told your whole life that is behavioral, that you got fat because you don’t exercise enough and you eat too much food.
That’s not the case. Um, it’s all hormonal and insulin, as we’ve talked about in this podcast is, is the driving catalyst to fat accumulation. So you can do something about it. You are not hopeless. There is something you can do about this. And that’s where the ketogenic diet has helped. So many people is because it’s woken so many people up to, Hey, everybody told you that you couldn’t do this because you were never going to go to a gym and you were never going to slash your calories to a thousand. Um, it’s given them hope that, you know, I can live a good life, be happy and lose weight and it’s not my fault. So, um, I just kind of want to leave it off on that. Um, you can always also email me Jason firstname.lastname@example.org drew you’re the man you’re doing awesome stuff. A seriously grow, like in order for this whole shift that’s going on right now. Um, this war against carbs, that’s bringing fat to the forefront is ketogenic diet movement. It takes people, public figures like you to do these kinds
Of things that you’re doing right now. And it makes a huge, huge difference. So props to you, bro. I have tremendous amount of respect for you. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate that Jason and likewise, and I hope I run into eventually at some kind of expo or thing, you know, I got your number now. We definitely will. Matt will go out and get some fat, some fat together, but it would be good. It sounds good, Jason. I appreciate it, man. My pleasure. Thanks a lot. Cheers. Bye. Bye
Thank you guys so much for listening to today’s episode with Jason Whitlock. I hope you guys enjoyed it and learned a little bit more about the keto diet, whether it’s something you want to try out or not, it’s totally up to you. I try and give you guys, you know, all kinds of different people on this show. You know, not, not just keto, like I said, I don’t try and say, this is something that everybody should try it, but you know, it find out if it works for you, you know? And so hopefully you learned something today in today’s episode, I appreciate you guys coming in each and every week, listening to these episodes. Hopefully if you guys liked them, please share them on social media, sharing with your friends and family. And it definitely go give our show sponsors some love. I would really, really appreciate that.
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