Hello everybody. And welcome back to the Fit to fat to fit experience podcast. It’s me, your friend and host drew Manning with another great episode here on the fit To fat to fit experience podcast. Now, many of you guys know me from my fit to fat to fit journey, where I gained 75 pounds in six months on purpose, and then lost it again in six more months. And now I have a podcast that is, let’s see, we’re coming up on a hundred episodes. Pretty soon. We’re in the seventies right now, 75, 76 episodes total. And this is something that I love to do. Um, recently I was at the LA fit expo in LA and, uh, I was able to meet this guy named dr. Lane Norton. And he’s very popular in the bodybuilding industry. Uh, the flexible dieting industry, uh, this guy is he’s interesting because he has both a science background, but then he applies it in the gym.

And that’s why I think so many people can relate to him is because he knows what he’s talking about. Right. He has the scientific background and the knowledge, and, but then also, you know, works out really hard in the gym. And so he’s kinda got the best of both worlds. A little bit about, a little bit about his background. Um, lane is a, he lives in Tampa, Florida right now. Um, he is a bodybuilding figure on physique coach. He does a lot of seminars all over the world. Actually, he was a professional powerlifter. Um, he has his BS in biochemistry from Eckerd college, and he has a PhD in nutritional sciences with honors university of Illinois in 2010. And, uh, he definitely knows what he’s talking about. Anyways, I have modeled, we talked about what is flexible dieting for those of you who are new, because honestly I believe that different diets work differently for different people, right?

And it looks very generic statement, but I honestly believe that I’m a big fan of ketosis, but I’m also a big fan of the paleo diet and the vegan diet for other people and find what works for you and make it a lifestyle change. And that’s not always the same thing I do. And it’s unfortunately, Oh, and we talked about this with lane. You know, we get into nutrition as if it’s a religion and seriously, there’s people that take it as such. And they look at certain foods as evil and if they eat it, they feel bad, they feel guilty and that’s not how it should be. That’s not very healthy. So we talked a little bit about that. We’re talking about flexible, dieting, eating, Snickers, eating donuts, whatever it is, you know, fitting your macros, but he talks about the science behind it. Uh, I’m not a huge proponent of it to be honest with you, but I do feel like there’s a place for it.

And at lane does a good job of, of, um, you know, convincing people of that, that this can work. And I do think it can. Um, uh, but anyways, we kind of talked about that, his opinions on the keto diet too, and you know, some, um, we talked a little bit about supplements as well. It’s a good episode. I really do feel like I learned a lot from it. And I like having people on to have different philosophies than me. So I feel like it was really good. You guys definitely to listen to this and you’ll, you’ll, you’ll be able to learn a lot from it as well. Um, before we jump into the episode, you guys, first things first, my fat fit transformation program, if you haven’t heard yet has been relaunched. Um, back when I did fit to fat fit, you know, six years ago, I gained 75 pounds in six months eating a standard American diet.

And so pretty much all of that weight was pure fat that I put on. And when I lost the weight I wanted people to do with me, I want them to show people that, look, this is the lifestyle change. This isn’t some extreme diet that you have to follow, where you starve yourself. You work out multiple times a day. I wanted to show people exactly what I did every single day for six months to show them this is, this is my journey back to fit, and you can do it with me. And I’ve since relaunched it now five and a half years later, repackaged, it kind of put it together, you know, without a lot of knowledge of what I was doing, I just kind of, it was very basic. And so anyways, if you go to transform.fit to fit.com, it’s the full six month program with all of the meal plans and the recipes and the workouts and exercises.

And you get access to me as your coach through a private Facebook group. If you joined the program, transformed our fit to fit.com. This is my baby. This is something that I, uh, used myself, of course, the same program to get back to fit, but also thousands of people from all over the world use this program as well and their transformation stories. And before and after pictures, um, or on my, on my blog. And you’ll, you can see some of their pictures, um, at that website transformed up fit to fat, to fit.com. Go check it out. Before we jump into the episode as well, we have to give a shout out to our show sponsors. Our first show sponsor is drop an F bomb.com drop an F bomb.com is a great company that makes eating KIDO easy. And the reason why is because they have these single serving pouches of high quality fats, coconut oil, avocado oil, olive oil, macadamia, nut oil, Brazil, nut oil, they have the most amazing nut butters.

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All right, lane. What’s up, man. How are you doing today, drew? How are you? I’m doing great, man. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, man. My pleasure. I’m excited that we got, we got to meet at the LA fit expo finally. Uh, it’s cool to meet other influencers in person, right through social media. Things are a little bit different. Uh, so, uh, I’m grateful that we met man. And, um, I appreciate you being willing to come on my podcast. Uh, I kinda wanna start off by just introducing you to my audience a little bit about you, where you grew up, uh, what your interests and passions were as a kid and how that led you to your passion for health and fitness.

Well, uh, when I was growing up, uh, I have picked on a lot. I was, um, like really kind of the bottom of the social totem pole, if you know what I mean. And, um, I, uh, so I, I can’t remember what I had. I had the epiphany or not the epiphany, but the idea that, well, you know, I’m going to start lifting weights too, you know, I can pick on so much, um, and ended up making a difference to be honest with you. Um, but it was fine because I ended up planning something that I had a passion for and, and was, um, it was good for me, but I kind of picked it up with that idea with the idea that it was gonna help me meet more girls and helped me stop getting picked on. And so I, uh, I started, I guess the first time I ever lifted a weight, I would say, what else was 14 years old?

And, um, I started and then kind of stopped it, uh, like a few years later because I got a girlfriend and, you know, it was kind of just into that. And, um, so then once she broke up with me, picked it back up, you know, and, um, and then kinda stuck with it ever since. And I would say I was probably out of 17 when I picked it back up. So I’m 35 now. So for 18 years, and at first, you know, it was done a noble reason. I wasn’t lifting weights for, for, you know, for soul betterment or anything like that. It was just look better, be stronger. So I can hopefully be more desirable to the opposite sex and stop having bullies pick on me. But over time that transitioned into, um, more, I started to really enjoy the actual journey itself. Um, and I had always wanted to be a Marine biologist from when I was a young kid till, you know, like late teens.

And, um, by the time I was in college, I decided that, well, I was more passionate about this. And so I switched my degree about chemistry. Um, and then, uh, did a graduate degree in nutritional science because obviously nutrition and bodybuilding, um, and my specific area of focus was in protein metabolism and, uh, for obvious reasons. And, um, so yeah, I just kinda took it and got just fully immersed myself in everything to do with, uh, weight lifting and bodybuilding. And it became, and it still is, um, my life and a big part of my life and, uh, something that I really enjoy. And, um, yeah, it just grew to really love the journey.

Yeah, man, and that’s really cool. I think a lot of people can relate to that because at some point in people’s lives, you know, especially during their teenage years, when people are insecure, you know, we want to look good for egotistical reasons, right. I want to be attracted to the opposite sex. I want to be skinny. I want to fit in. I don’t want to get picked on. And I think that’s very, very relatable for a lot of people. But as you grow older and wiser, you realize, look, that’s cool and all, but you know, you don’t have to worry about people picking on you, hopefully in your thirties, you know, and, and even twenties, like, you know, but anyways, um, you know, for everybody listening lane is a very, very, very smart guy and congrats to you too, man, I recently saw you got over a hundred thousand subscribers on YouTube and I liked what you said. You’re like, you know, just sitting on my couch, talking about science or something like that.

Yeah. I mean, well, I don’t have any video production quality. Like I’ve recently just had a guy who’s come on. Who’s not professional a videographer by any means, but he’s better than I am. And so he could kind of puts together my videos for me now, or a few of them, um, try to, you know, try to up that quality a little bit, because it is important. And, um, you are competing, you know, everything is a competition. And, um, but I, you know, I, my problem was, I don’t, I don’t want to sound like completely shallow, but you’ve got to kind of, you know, you’ve only got so much time in the day, so you’ve got to triage your time towards what’s priority. You know, I never say I don’t use, I’m sorry. I don’t want to say never. I try not to use the thing.

That’s the people that say I don’t have time for and insert this. No, no, no, you got time. It’s just not a priority. And that’s fine. Just be honest about what your priorities are. Right. Um, so my, my priority was not with my YouTube channel because I just, it was like, alright, well, I’m not, you know, I don’t make that much income from it. Um, I don’t see tons of conversions from it, but I know there’s a lot of potential there, especially with, you know, a hundred thousand followers from literally having no production quality and just sitting on my couch, talking about studies and research and whatnot. So if I can do a hundred thousand with that, um, you know, Lord knows what I can do if I actually put some effort into it, not some effort into it, but more effort into it. So I’ve been trying to put more effort into that, you know, but again, like everything’s, everything’s a sacrifice, everything’s a triage for time and it’s all about, you know, what are you, what are you, um, what is your focus?

What is your, what is your priority? So, so I tell people, like I saw this the other day and I really loved the quote that the don’t say, you don’t have time say it’s not a priority because when you start having to use that kind of verbiage, it changes how you behave. You know, when you say I don’t have time to work out and now that that might be okay, right? Like if you got four kids and you’re a single parent or whatever, and then you have to work two jobs, you may just say, listen, I, I, I can make the time, but it’d be at the expense of my kids or the expense of being able to support my family. And so it’s not a priority for me. That is completely fine. That is fine. Right. But just be honest about where it lies. So I’ve, I’ve really tried to change. Like I said, the way I use my, my words and my verbiage. Yeah.

I think that’s really powerful too. Um, and you know, just changing the way you, and being honest with yourself about, you know, what is a priority in your life. And yeah, we all kind of want to have those results without the, you know, hard work and discipline, it takes to get them. But in reality, it doesn’t happen that way. It’s not like I wish this would, I could look this way without having to put any effort into it, but unfortunate, that’s not how life is, you know, so you gotta put forth the effort. But, um, you know, I, I think, you know, for me looking at someone like you and other people in the industry, I, I, I’ve always been kind of envious cause you guys have the science background. Right. But then you also go and know how to apply it in the gym and in the kitchen, for example, with, you know, exercise and nutrition.

And I’m like, man, that would be so cool. But so many doctors that have their degrees that are super smart, people that have all the knowledge in the world don’t know how to apply it. And so I think that’s why people resonate with you is like, dude, this guy is rich. He’s huge. He knows what he’s doing. He understands the science behind it. And um, that’s why they go to you or they, you know, even though your videos might not be the best quality cause, know what you’re talking about and you kind of back it up with, with, uh, you know, your own results.

Well, I think that I understood from a business perspective a long time ago, that that was important, you know? Um, not to again, so shallow or make it about money, but you know, it is, it is true. Um, that, you know, if you, if you’re a person who doesn’t look the part, you know, like if you’re, if you’re running a fitness company, you don’t look and shape, even though you may have the knowledge people aren’t gonna, it’s going to be hard for people to fully buy into that. You know, um, if you are a marriage counselor and your marriage is crappy, it’s gotta be tough to buy into your, you know, your, your effectiveness, right? Like if you’re a motivational speaker and you find yourself being lazy, it’s gotta be tough to buy into that. Right. So, um, I think that, uh, it is important to apply it to ourselves.

And I think that anybody who’s actually truly passionate about what they do is not going to have that problem. You know what I mean now? Um, you know, I know like people don’t want to admit these States themselves, but things like genetics matter, you know, but they’re not, are they matter and everything, you know? But, um, so a good example of this is, uh, there’s a coach out there, his name’s cliff Wilson, and he’s probably one of the best coaches in natural bodybuilding right now. And he actually doesn’t have a scientific background, but he he’s very, very good at what he does and we don’t agree on everything, but we, we agreed on, uh, on a lot of stuff. And, um, he actually has an, I don’t think he’ll mind me saying this terrible genetics for bodybuilding. I mean, just absolutely awful like yet, but he ended up doing very well at winning some bodybuilding shows last year.

And just because, you know, he had so much determination and grit and got, you know, really shredded. And even though people were better, they’re repeatable projects there. He still gotten really good shape. So, uh, but people might look at like his pictures versus mine and say, Oh, well maybe lane knows more what he’s talking about. And it’s like, well, that’s not always true. Although obviously I do have a scientific background to back it up, but you know, I always, cause it’s funny, I’ve gotten people who have said, literally said this, um, well, or like not like bodybuilders or power have said this and even other scientists, like in kind of all the three areas that I’m in, they said, well, what’s so special about light and he’s not the best of this. You know, like, like physique wise, if you want to go in a gym in America and find a guy’s merit physique, to me, you’ll find it for sure, like problem.

And pretty much every gym, you could probably find a guy who was a better physique than me. That’s fine. And there are people who are stronger than me. No question about that. Those better academics to me smarter than me, uh, all that kind of stuff. Um, there’s people who are better speakers than I am all that, you know, that is completely accurate, but you know, what makes me different is one I’m me. And two, I combined all that stuff, right? Like I’m jus I’m not, I’m very hard to categorize because I’m not just one thing. And, um, and so anyways, I think that, that wherever I became passionate about the application of those to my own self was a big part of people, I guess. How would I say it? Um, being willing to trust me if that makes sense. Yeah.

No, it makes perfect sense, man. And I appreciate you, you kind of talking about that and you know, at the end of the day, there’s always going to be haters no matter who you are and no matter how smart you are, no matter how strong you are, no matter how big you are, you know what I’m saying? There’s always gonna be someone that’s going to try and put you down and bring you down to their level. And, and I’ve just learned over the years at that, it’s just reflection of how they see themselves. They try and make you feel bad and there’s trolls online. So I know that you have to go through that probably on a daily basis. We all do. Right. So anyways, let’s shift gears here a little bit, because I want to introduce my audience a little bit to what flexible dieting is cause they consider you definitely one of the, you know, the experts of the masters on this subject.

You know, I talk a lot about the keto diet, a paleo diet on my podcast, but I really do believe that there’s not one size fits all for anything. And people need to be exposed to different re uh, protocols and routines and programs out there because my whole philosophy is to get people, to become their own self experimentation, to find out what is optimal for you. So nutrition workouts, you need to be experimental and, and be your own experimentation so that, you know, what is optimal for you. And you can say, Hey, I did this for 60, 90 day straight. This is my blood work. This is my results. This is how it changed me. And this is fits my lifestyle. And so I would love for you to kind of maybe start with the basics and, uh, and you know, maybe also talk about the do’s and don’ts, cause I feel like any diet out there has people that do it correctly, people that do incorrectly, no matter what diet it is. Does that make sense?

So I guess first, before I go off on a 20 minute, yeah, I should define exactly what, what a flexible dieting model is. And so basically traditional diets, like a paleo diet or a ketogenic diet or ketogenic, there’s a good reason why you’re eliminating a food group. If you’re trying to get into ketosis, um, you know, clean eating, all these sorts of things are what we call restricted diets in that you always have to restrict calories because otherwise, or if you’re trying to lose fat, because that’s just how it happens. Um, although that may come as a shock to some people, cause I think some people believe that there’s magical diets out there that you don’t have to restrict calories, which is not true, but I’ll get into that. Um, and then there’s, what’s called flexible dieting, which is where you don’t say you can get these, these foods you say, alright, um, any foods on the table, it just depends on context and there’s constraints.

And I’ll talk about that. But I think that, uh, the other thing to point out is flexible. Dieting can be combined with any other kinds of diet, any kind of diet you can, you can, you can flexible diet and do ketogenic. You can flexible diet and do paleo. You can flexible diet and do anything the point as long as it’s your choice. And you are not under the assumption that cause people who are in the fitness industry who are here, flexible dieting, I’ve had, I’ve had people literally ask me laying, do I have to eat pop tarts?

Do I have to, that’s a funny question.

Like, no, I don’t like pop tarts. I don’t think they taste that good. Like, you know, sort of like, well, when I got to graduate school, I’ll jump to, so let me define flexible dining real quick. So any foods on the table, you’re just trying to hit a daily amount of your protein, carbohydrate, fat numbers. And I will also use the caveat of getting enough fiber in as well. And I’ll talk about why. Um, and so for a lot of people who are familiar with tracking their intake, that can be pretty daunting. Um, but I think most people, there’s a lot of tools out there today. Most people can learn to do this and then once they get the hang of it, it’s not that difficult. Um, we can, we can discuss about people who become neurotic with it and try to hit down to a single gram and then these sorts of things.

And you know, that’s, that is another problem. But in general, you’re trying to hit your protein, carbohydrate and fat targets, whatever they may be, whatever your goals are. I can’t tell you what those are going be. Um, there’s not just so flexible. Dieting is, is a, is a system of dieting. It’s not just one diet. So, um, but whatever your, whatever, those numbers are, whatever they are, look like your, for your goals, high carb, low carb, high fat, low fat, high protein, lower protein, whatever they are, you’re trying to hit those. And when I, when I people here will any foods on the table, why could I just eat pizza all the time? Well, good question. Well, it’s going to be reg self-regulating because if you only are able to eat, if your goal is fat loss, for example, and you’re only able to eat 140 grams of carbohydrate a day and 50 grams of fat, for example, let’s just say you’re, you’re kind of on the average, an average fat loss diet, and you need to require that like you’re, you’re not a super fast metabolism you require getting relatively low on your calories to, to, to lose fat.

Well then you’re, you’re not going to have an Eli pizza hitting 140 grams of carbohydrate and 50 grams of fat per day. Like you’re going to have like a slice, you know what I mean? Or two, and now you’re actually going to be probably really hungry the rest of the day because that wasn’t very filling, right. So if you’re doing it correctly, you’re probably actually going to pick a lot of quote unquote clean foods, high in bulk high in fiber for the justice, the satisfying effect. I know when I diet down I’m I, I hardly ever eat a salad right now, but I die down. I lost the house, you know, because it’s filling and it’s, um, it helps me, it help satiate me, but that doesn’t mean that I also, you know, what if I really, really, really, really want ice cream one day, I let myself have that, but I also have to budget for it.

So I always say flexible dieting is like a, um, like a budget. So if I’m a millionaire, um, if I am able to pay my mortgage and pay my bills and save money for retirement and put money away for my kids’ college and, you know, pay off all the things that are the responsible things I need to do. And then I still have a bunch of money left over to where I brought in by myself, a nice, like $80,000 sports car. Is that okay for me to do that? I think it’ll probably fine. Right. Um, but if I make $50,000 a year is okay for me to go take out an $80,000 loan, um, with a high interest rate, um, and not put in jeopardy my ability to pay my mortgage and put money away and pay for my kids’ college and all these sorts of things, just because I want a sports car.

No, that’s not a good idea. Right? That’s a, that’s a really bad idea. And so it’s a very similar with when it comes to diet. Um, if you’re only eating, let’s take our example of somebody in the 140 grams of carbohydrate per day. Um, if you want to have two pop tarts, that’s over half of your carbohydrate intake for the day and two little pop tarts, right. So you can do it, but it’s going to be really hard to get enough fiber in and get an a H hit your other macronutrient numbers now. Um, and so it, could you do it? Yeah. Is it the best idea and what you probably would you, would you end up continuing to do it? Probably not. Um, just because of the hunger now I had a friend, her name’s, so he leaves also another big flexible binder. And, um, she actually did a contest prep where she ate a Snickers every day during her contest prep.

And she didn’t, well, she won her pro card, like in bikini, like she did just fine, you know, she got Bolinas, she’d never been, but she did say that she hated the fact she had eat that snugger is because it showed up pun intended, you know, over 30 grams of carbohydrate and over 10 grams of fat for something that was pretty tiny, you know, it’s sort of rather spent that on something more filling. So again, it’s a budget and it’s okay to have some of those, those quote unquote, bad foods, as long as you understand how that affects your budget and, and, and what you’re going to have to do to accommodate for that. Now, a lot of people will ask me about, well, okay, well, isn’t that going to impede? You being able to lose weight? What about your health? The graduate school? I wanted to find magic foods because I felt like if I could find some magic foods, um, well that would validate me spending, you know, spending all this time, going to school and I’d be famous, right?

Like if I, if I found these super foods, you know, like I’d be famous. Well, what’d you find out is there’s not really super foods there. Every food has upsides and downsides. And it just depends on your, your, your apps, you know, your actual situation and your goals. Um, you know, even sugar let’s take sugar. Like people will say, well, we know sugar is bad. We know sugar is bad. Well, if you really look at the data, um, the data says that yes, sugar is associated with obesity. Although in the last few years, our sugar intake has actually gone down or I’m sorry, it hasn’t gone down. It has leveled out. Uh, and, and, and, and this is an America, but obesity has continued to climb up very steadily. So that’s your first indicator that maybe it’s more it’s, it’s not just sugar. Um, another thing is too, is correlations always causation, and, you know, people who eat more sugar, sugar is not that satisfying.

As we talked about and people eat more sugar are more likely to just overeat on more calories, right? Like if you drink two Cokes a day, I mean, you’re getting your, I mean, that’s almost 500 calories right there, you know, for something that isn’t going to satisfy you at all. Um, so if you actually look at the direct intervention research where they compare like the calorie control groups and have them diet sugar, doesn’t seem to make any difference when calories are controlled, especially when you can control calories and protein. So it doesn’t look like this, this model of insulin sugar, um, or insulin carbohydrate being the driving force behind obesity is correct. Now that being said, people have a hard time limiting their sugar intake. So I’m not saying that you should go out and eat a bunch of sugar. What I’m saying is if you want to have something with sugar in it, as long as you understand that the cost of that, you know, in terms of your budget, that’s okay.

Um, but it’s, it’s not a situation where, you know, sugar is inherently more labor genic than, than anything else. And, um, uh, even with regards to health markers, very interestingly, uh, you, there was a study done where they looked at two groups, have it, one having ruined you. I sugar intake, like over a hundred grams of sugar a day, and another having under 10 or under 11 grams a day. And they saw like, well, all the groups improve their blood lipids, their cholesterol, their markers of inflammation, all, both groups improved. Um, and there was no difference between either group and any of the markers, the only except cholesterol cholesterol. It was very small difference. Um, the group eating the lower sugar diet had a little bit better improvement in cholesterol. And that was probably because they consume more fiber fiber binds with cholesterol and lowers cholesterol.

My guess is if they actually, uh, equalized the fiber content of the two study groups, they would’ve seen the same thing. Now, again, people will hear me say this and they will say, um, well, are you really advocating to people eat sugar? No, I’m not advocating that at all. Again, what I’m saying is you don’t need to feel guilty or like you did something wrong, uh, by eating something that’s, you know, quote unquote bad, cause it’s not bad. It’s just maybe a little bit more expensive on your budget, right. Obviously like things, you know, I know that you’re, uh, you’ve talked about ketogenic diets. I think those have very specific benefits, especially, um, you know, for people who have cancer and epilepsy and Alzheimer’s and those sorts of things. So I I’ve I’ve, I’ve I’ve, you know, people say, well, lane dude, I was on, when I get these questions, thank you.

You hate the ketogenic diet. And I’m like, well, no, she didn’t do the diet. Then come into my house and punch, punch me in the face and kick my dog. You know, like I don’t, I don’t hate it at all. I just, you know, I don’t want people to, I think a lot of people fail at diets because, um, they try to do things they can’t stick to. And so if you can stick to the ketogenic diet, um, by all means, if you enjoy it, go do it. You know? Uh, but I think a lot of people end up, you know, what? My dad did a ketogenic diet years ago and lost 30 pounds. And when he went off of it, he gave back 50. Like it’s actually better off to have never had dieted that if you United. So what I really tried to do is get people to be more sustainable stop.

Yo yo dieting. And I think flexible dieting for a lot of people can be something that is useful for that. Because I think the barrier to entry for dieting is rural intimidating for the average person, because they open up their fitness magazines and they see these super fit people who all they do is eat kale. And one of the meats, you know what I mean? And they go, well, I could never do that. Right. Most generous people, if you go and watch them at an expo, they’re at the food court, like everybody else eaten, you know, jumped if it’s their cheat day, you know? But, um, uh, so what I try to do is lower the barrier to entry. And so I tried to say, you can still have, you don’t have to give up all those foods, you know, cause some people will say, I could, I would love to be loosened to this body fat, but I, you know, I can never eat that way. You don’t have, like, you can, you can just be a little bit more, you know, reduce your portion size, still enjoy the foods you enjoy, um, and still make progress. And I think when you lower that barrier to entry, you can get more people who are actually willing to, you know, give fitness a shot.

Basically let me back up a little bit. Cause I think I understand what you’re saying here. And I think just to make sure it makes sense to a lot of peoples, it’s not so much the sugar, the amount of sugar that you’re eating in your diet. It’s more so the people that eat more sugar tend to eat more calories. Therefore they’re at a calorie surplus and they’re packing on the pounds, the fat, um, versus if you, if you look at, if you can control it and keep it within, for example, those macros, uh, for your goals, you can still see results and have a Snickers bar. If you want to. It’s just a matter of controlling the amount that you’re putting in your bodies, uh, or that you’re putting in your body. Um, and that’s basically what you’re saying in a nutshell, right?

That’s exactly right. And usually what I, when I go down the rabbit hole with clients who believe that they have, you know, certain foods or I had a great example of this was somebody who thought that they were, who said, I can’t eat gluten. I, I, you know, I, I just get bloated and I put on body fat and I said, well, do you have celiac? And I said, and uh, I said, well, you know, so I started going down the rabbit hole. Well, it turns out the only time they would eat gluten would be when they’re having a cheat meal. And they would feel guilty about eating gluten because it was bad, bad. And so they would overeat on it because all of us have this all or nothing mentality where it’s like, Oh no, that’s another thing flexible dieting does, is it kind of takes away that that guilt factor of having consumed something you weren’t supposed to.

Right. So a lot of people will, they’ll go, well, I’ve already blown my diet. I might as well just have everything I want. And I can tell you, I can tell you I’ve been on the phone with clients as they shovel food in their mouth crying, saying, this is the last cheat meal I’ll ever have. And I’m thinking, no, it’s not like you’re, of course you’re going to cheat again. Maybe you told somebody, you never going to be able to have this thing that you love again, like, that’s just ridiculous. So, um, uh, you know, I, like I said, I try and lower the barrier to entry and I try to just get people to be honest with where they’re at and make decisions. And like, I haven’t actually seen, uh, you know, self-improvement counselor for the last year. Um, because I just, I always want to try and get better.

And one of the things that I have a tendency to do is to never acknowledge tradeoffs. Like I would say, I won’t do this goal, this goal, this goal in school. And she would be like, well, when you realize it, like one of those goals can flex with another couple. Right. And I would refuse to acknowledge it. I want everything. Like, I want everything to work and she’d be like, no, you need to understand that there’s a trade off. Right. So like getting me to say, okay, I’m going to do X, but I understand it’s going to be at the expense of Y it’s the same thing with nutrition. Like, and again, like the Snickers bar analogy. Um, I think if I got people to try say, okay, I want you to have a Snickers everyday, but control your calorie. And eventually they go, you know what, I’d rather not have the Snickers. I’d rather have a big salad, you know, like, like, and be full. So that’s why we say that. I think flex apply these pretty self-regulating as long as you’re doing it. Right.

Exactly. And I think that’s the problem is that you sometimes see people promote it in a wrong way, saying, look at me, I can eat pop tarts and I can eat Snickers and look at my body. And it’s like, Oh man, well, I guess that’s how it works. So I guess I could do that too, without the education of, okay. You have to understand there was give and take and everything. Even with this diet, you can’t just say you’re eating pop tarts and pizza. And um, and then, you know, you want to look like that person, it can work. It’s just, you have to have the knowledge before you go into it. Right. There has to be a little bit of research and understanding, um, before diving into it and saying, okay, I can eat all these foods, but I think like you said, you know, once people understand it, they’re not eating pop tarts and Snickers for every single meal, they’re still eating high quality protein, you know, uh, vegetables for some of their carbs and getting enough fiber. Cause you’re not getting fiber from Poptarts and Snickers, for sure. If that’s your main source of carbs, right.

Yeah. Correct. And you hit that. I think, I think part of it too, is like, you know, it goes both ways. Um, people who are like, for example, the clean eaters is also, um, the, you know, they’ll go post pictures and it’s almost like, look at how great I am because of how much, how much I allow myself to suffer. And I don’t, you know, as much as me, you’re not only are you not as dedicated, but you’re a bad person, you know? So, and then on the other end and on the other hand, you know, hashtag team, no days off, um, and on the other hand, um, you have people doing flexible dieting who will, and who will post pictures. These foods will make it seem like, Oh, they know dieting is, it’s not a big deal. It’s not hard. It shouldn’t be hard.

It should never be hard. No, listen, if you get to a certain amount of body fat, it can be, I’ve done this in, in, in bodybuilding, I’ve dyed in restrictively and I’ve dyed in flexibly. And both times when I got loaded it up, it didn’t matter. It sucked regardless, you know? Um, and so I think that, you know, anybody, we’re all guilty of oversimplifying things, we’re all guilty of taking things out of context and we, myself included. Um, but yeah, I, I think that, you know, I tried to do my best to be like, um, academically honest about everything I’m doing. And so I don’t, I don’t try to tell people, Hey, you know, like, I’ll, I’ll say, you know, there’s, there’s even YouTube or Instagram, you know, screen names out there that it’s like basically saying, Oh, Trent shredded on pop tarts or, or whatever, you know, like, and again, I’m not, I understand people are trying to make a name for themselves and that’s, you know, that’s a very quick way to get some attention, right. Is to, um, is to, you know, put something provocative out there. But I would rather try to educate people and have them understand that the context of everything, uh, and be able to make the best decisions for themselves.

Yeah. I agree. 100%. And I think one of the things that you touched on that’s really important is, is, you know, we’re starting to become a society, a society, especially here in America, on Instagram and social media where we’re making nutrition, almost a religion. Right. And we are vilifying other, other diets, like you’re evil, like I’m righteous. And it is in a way kind of becoming like a religion, which is just ridiculous. If you end the, you touched on this too, like looking at food as bad and good, and this is evil and this is, you should feel bad because you ate this, but people tend to do that. And it’s, it’s so unhealthy to do that, to have that type of relationship with food where you’re beating yourself up, or you feel like you’re less, uh, your, your, your self worth is less because you had a donut or a Twinkie. When in reality, there’s so much more to you than what you put in your body. Right. And there’s so much more to you than what your physical appearance is. Right. We, we think, Oh, well, I’m skinny and I’m fit. So I’m, I’m, I’m healthy and I’m better than someone who’s, you know, 50 pounds of our weight. They can’t control their hunger.

Right. And the thing is, well, um, I, and you know, this from being in the fitness industry, there are plenty of people who are physically healthy, who are mentally screwed, you know, like just not a good place, uh, mentally in terms of how even obsessive they are about nutrition. And so, you know, I think all those, and again, like, that’s, I’m not, uh, not, I’m not upset at anybody. I’m not upset way people die, whether they choose to, I mean, it’s funny you bring this up. Uh, I actually had a, um, a video log years ago that it was, I think my fifth one and I called it, um, how do I find it becoming a zealot? You know? And I think, I think what a lot of stuff boils down to, and if you listen, if you, I actually am pretty interested in psychology.

Uh, people like to feel like they belong to something right. Something larger than themselves. And so a lot of times they’ll invest themselves way further than just what something is. Right. And I’m guilty of this too, but flexible dieting cause flexible dieting is like a community now, you know, like there’s a whole community. And if you say something we don’t like, we’ll come get you stuff. And I’m like, I’ve had to kind of check myself recently. Um, cause I don’t want to be as L I want to, I just want to look at the data. Cause at the end of the day I discovered flexible dieting. Not because I want the pop tarts and stickers bars when I was dieting. But because I just found that I would Jojo so much when I was body bullied from when I was really dedicated dieting down. So then going into the off season that a lot of people have this, they gave him 20, 30, 50, 60 pounds, whatever, um, are really uncomfortable.

And then they have to really get aggressively dieting it all back off. I mean, this is the concept of the show, you know, fit to fat to fit well, I deal with a lot of Julia dining. So, um, I’m trying to get people to. So what I started doing was I started trying to be a little bit more flexible and, and see how that affected me. What I found was it was by allowing myself a little bit of flexibility. I was able to stay leaner in the off season, which then translated into me being able to get leaner in contest prep, which translated to being more successful. And so I didn’t do flexible dieting because I was like, Oh, I’ll be, like I said, I want to eat pop tarts and this stuff, I did it because it was the best thing to do for me to be consistent and get better results.

So, you know, if I, if I, if I had the data to say, no sugar gram for gram is worse for you, then I would eat less sugar. You know, like I would do all this stuff, but you know, I’m not going to, I’m not going to advise people. They eliminate certain foods or, or, you know, do you know these kinds of practices if the data just isn’t there to, to support that. So, um, I think that it’s very easy to get invested in a quote unquote movement. And I people that, like I had somebody that day, like they tagged me in something on Instagram, like at Biolayne come destroy this guy, you know, somebody talking about flexible lighting sucks. I went in there and I’m reading it. And I’m like, well, first off this guy didn’t even understand what flexible dieting is, which is a lot of people.

Um, but then I was, I was like, why am I going to waste my time on this? Like, not that I haven’t done it before, because I’ve definitely done it before. I got to try and pretend that I’m a Saint I’m not, but in a particular circumstance, I’m like, I’m not going to change this person’s opinion. And it will just be a waste of time. So, but it’s interesting that everybody, like, they’re like try to call him the big guns. You know what I mean, for me, the big buttons to destroy something else. And I get the same thing. Like I’ll have people they’ll tag, you know, whoever, whoever, some of their buddies, somebody, you know, uh, somebody who status and try to get them to come in to, to debate me, which has fallen by the way. Like, I’m always happy to have debates. Anybody who falls my Twitter knows that.

Yeah. And I think that’s interesting. It’s not only at the time that you have to put into it. It’s also, it’s also the emotional energy like, Oh man, this guy said this to me. That makes me so mad. And I just, for me, I don’t get involved with that stuff. Cause it’s like getting into a political debate on Facebook. For me, it’s like, look, I’m not going to change your opinion. You’re not going to change my opinion for the most part. Um, but I, I don’t know. I just don’t get into that cause I don’t think it’s healthy emotionally as well. Um, and so yet you’re spending a lot of time, but also emotional energy that you could be putting towards bettering other people’s lives. And, um, yeah, it is kind of unfortunate. That is, you know, it is becoming like a religion in some ways and people are so, uh, defensive and you know, it, it can be unhealthy in some ways, but the same time having a tribe and other people that, you know, are think like like-minded, I think it is healthy to have that tribal came a part of this and I feel great.

And that’s what works for you. You have to understand that what works for you doesn’t work for other people. And so people need to understand that. And you know, some people, I know a lot of people that are really successful on flexible dieting, but I know a lot of people that are also successful doing, you know, that are vegetarian or vegan or keto or whatever it is. Of course. Yeah. So I think just all of us need to realize that I’m speaking of ketosis, let’s talk a little bit about it and maybe you, I don’t know if you’ve ever done the keto experiment. Obviously I’m a big fan for me. It’s more about the improvement, cognitive function. My mental clarity for me is so much better. Like my gains, aren’t better. My strength. Isn’t better than my pants about the same. And my body fat percentage is about the same too. Right. So I’m not trying to, for me, keto, isn’t about looking good or, you know, I’m shredded all the time. It’s more for me about the improvement in cognitive function, mental clarity. Um, but you know, other people use it for fat loss or epilepsy or cancer and all, there’s all kinds of applications for it, but what’s been your take on it so far with what you’ve seen in the research and maybe even self experimentation with it. I don’t know if you have yet.

I have personally not. Um, so I’m not, I would not consider myself an expert in ketogenesis, but, um, you know, I’m good friends with dr. Dominic D’Agostino, uh, great guy, great researcher. Um, I’ve had him speak a lot of the events I’ve had. I’ve talked to him a lot and um, you know, at least from the data I’ve looked at, I think that, uh, you know, I can tell you that if I was diagnosed with cancer tomorrow, I’d be on a ketogenic diet or Alzheimer’s or those sorts of things. So I don’t know where ketogenic diets really shine is where, um, somehow or another your body, um, becomes compromised at being able to properly utilize glucose because it goes into a great fuel as long as your body can use it correctly. But, um, if you were, you know, essentially, and I don’t want to put your things on the, for simplified, but from my best understanding, all Hymers is essentially insulin resistance in brain cells.

And so when you provide an alternative substrate, I E ketones, um, they can still produce energy and still function well, um, without that glucose, right. Whereas if you’re trying to force glucose in there and it’s, it’s just not being assimilated correctly, um, you know, it’s, it’s going to be a problem. So I think that, uh, I think the kid genic diet is quite frankly underutilized treatment, uh, for things like cancer for like epilepsy. I know a guy from the budget and the conformance Mike dancer, who was basically had, uh, such severe epilepsy that he was totally, he probably that he would need like really strong drugs to survive, um, basically forever. Um, and then if you go off and that it was likely he would die and he’s actually been able to, I think for like better part of 10 years to completely control it, um, through diet, through nutrition, through ketosis, I want to be really careful and cautious about how much I endorse it in that, you know, it’s not a cure for cancer.

I think it’s a viable treatment. Uh, you know, if you’re, you know, stage four lung cancer, it’s spread to your kidneys and all these other organs like is cute genic diet going to save you probably not. I don’t want to say no, because there are people with stage four lung cancer could have beat it, you know? Um, but the point being that it does seem to be some, it does seem to slow tumor progression. Uh, it does seem to also help with cancer cachexia because it’s giving you an alternative fuel source. Um, but yeah, I, and one of the things I’d like to point out about, um, QJ diets is, um, I think for a lot of people, they didn’t keep the genic diet as a high protein diet. It is not, it is a modest protein diet with a very high amount of fat and very low amount of carbohydrate.

Um, and also what it takes for people to get into coat ketosis is different. I know that I was probably in ketosis on around 80 grams of carbohydrate a day, um, during my last contest prep, cause I can smell it on my breath. Um, but for all the people are going to need to be much lower than that. And other people can even be up to, I think some people can get in ketosis at under a hundred grams of carbohydrate a day. So, but I think it really shines where your body needs, or there is an application for an alternative fuel source because at the end of the day, these are these aren’t drugs. Ketones are just another way for your body to make ATP and not have to utilize glucose. So, um, if there’s any kind of, uh, morbidities and diseases where it’s some kind of impairment of, of glucose usage, that’s where the ketogenic diet really tends to shine.

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. 100%. Yeah. I think some people, yeah, there’s still a lot of science that needs to be done. Right. But like you said, it’s underutilized in the industry, but I think now hopefully, you know, the medical field is starting to look at it as, okay, what are some real applications and what can we do? Like, because most of it was just, okay, pharmaceutical drugs or radiation or versus man, if you can change some of these things with diet, why don’t we just do that instead of give people drugs, but you know, like you said, there’s still a lot of science that needs to be done on it.

And so it doesn’t cost you anything. I mean, there’s no, uh, not I’ve seen any convincing data that there’s any dangers where the ketogenic diet, now there are people and they completely misinterpret this, this, this what this actually is, you know, they talk about ketoacidosis and they say, Oh, what about Q acidosis? Key ketoacidosis is when you are, um, insulin dependent, diabetic, and you get, you have a high level of ketones because your body’s not able to use glucose. Okay. So you build up a high amount of ketones. And then if you give a large amount of insulin where, or a dosage of insulin where you’re now forcing your body to use glucose, but you have a high level of ketones at the same time. Uh that’s when you can have ketoacidosis, cause they’re going to build up in your bloodstream and they’re going to cause, um, your blood to become a civic that is not going to happen in a physiological system. That’s not going to happen because whatever triggers ketones to be produced naturally by your body is going to trigger you to also reduce your rate of glycolysis. So that’s just not going to happen. And there are people out there who will fear mongering, but what about [inaudible], it’s it’s, it’s not a concern in my opinion.

Yeah. Unless you’re a type one diabetic, most likely. Exactly. Yeah. Um, okay. We’re kind of run up. I’m short on time here, but I wanted to give you some times talk about the things that you’re working on. I know you have your last cell ferments, let’s talk about those and then this new software, which I hope you can talk about, but let me know what you can and can’t talk about.

Yeah. So that’s uh, our website, avatar nutrition.com. So avatar nutrition is a flexible lighting website where you can go. Cause a lot of people will hear me talk about flexible diet, we’ll say, okay, well that’s great. Sounds awesome. I have no idea what my protein carbon fat intake should be. Well, so glad you asked. So I actually developed along with a few other friends of mine, a, um, a computer algorithm and program that you go to the site, you punch in some basic user data, you know, age, height, weight, body, fat percentage, um, of quite a few other metrics, but things are easy enough to find out as well as your goals, what your goals are. And it will generate custom science-based, uh, macronutrient recommendations for you, protein, carbs, and fat recommendations for you based on your, based on your data. Um, and then it will, uh, you will, you do check ins every week, uh, with the system and it adjusts you based on how you respond to what your goals are and you can change your goals.

You can switch. Um, we have like, even things like we’ve thought of everything in terms of even like, uh, like if you go on vacation for two weeks, you don’t have a vacation mode. So that like if you come back and you gained five pounds a year, the system doesn’t like drop your calories super low, it just knows that you were not compliant during those peaks. Like we, we have thought of a lot of stuff and um, uh, we are, we’re, we’re, we’re working to make it even better. Um, there’s gonna be a lot of changes. We’re rolling out this year, but it’s, it’s a really cool concept. You know, a lot of people have nutrition coaches. This fulfills the function of a coach and it’s $10 a month, you know? So I think it’s a great option for, we have over 7,000 active members right now.

I think it’s a great option for, um, people who are, you know, they, they maybe don’t have hundreds of dollars a month to spend on nutrition coach, but they want guidance. They want accountability. I think this is a great option for them and they want site and stuff. That’s science-based so hopefully in your listeners after hearing me talk, I think I know what I’m talking about. And uh, and we also, we have video tutorials, we have recipes, we have all kinds of every kind of structure you need to, uh, basically immerse yourself in the flexible dieting experience we have available to you. So, um, that’s avatar, nutrition.com. Then myself midline is a carbon Bilingue Norton. And uh, the reason we chose the word carbon was because carbon is the basis of life here. And, uh, we it’s all about the basics. Um, it’s not, you never see me do a commercial or any kind of ad where I’m saying add 5000% more muscle or just not, you’re not going to do that.

And that’s, you know, it’s a small company and that’s why it’s going to be small and probably stay small for a good little while because I’m not willing to compromise my scientific integrity, uh, by telling people it does is that it does not do so. We have three products right now we have carbon prep, which is a non-stimulant based. Uh pre-workout. So it has performance enhancers, uh, as well as cognitive enhancers. So you can focus better and perform better. We have a, uh, postworkout recovery product product called recover, um, that reduces recovery time reduces soreness, um, and allows you to train harder. And we have a protein powder or whey protein Islip called build, which is in my opinion, obviously I’m biased, but, uh, the best tasting protein on the market, nothing fancy, just a nice isolate, uh, very low cap, very low carb, very low fat, and it tastes great.

So those are, those are my two days. My other big thing I do is a one on one coaching for people who want it, who are willing to spend a little bit more money, that sort of thing, and want a little more personalized approach. I do offer that and that’s through my website, [inaudible] dot com, uh, which my website actually ended up itself. I have a members area of that website is just purely educational. So for $15 a month, um, you get premium articles. I do a webinar every month. Um, I do weekly Q and A’s. I do a lot of, um, I do a lot of stuff for the members. So, um, again, that’s kind of like just a pure education site. Um, but yeah, I try to offer something for everybody, I guess.

Yeah, no, it sounds like you do man. And I actually checked out the ingredients in your prep, the pre-workout, which I love, man, because let’s be honest. There’s so many pre-workouts out there that are just, you know, 400 milligrams of caffeine and it makes you feel great. Right. But it’s not really doing a lot for you. And so I looked at your ingredients, I think it’s really high quality product.

Thank you. Run bingos. We don’t do any proprietary blends. Everything that’s in there is list on there and the eggs and the exact amounts. And, uh, I’ll have to send you some. Yeah, but it’s a lot of people, uh, they will say, ah, well I tried this pre-workout I really felt something. Well, it had 500,000,005 other milligrams of niacin and four grams of caffeine. So you felt a niacin flush, you got really hot and you had better performance because you took a lot of caffeine. Like that’s not that difficult to do now. So I love caffeine and I think caffeine is a great performance enhancer, but I know a lot of people are sensitive to it and my decision to leave it out of prep was more so, because I feel like it’s something cheap and easy that you can add and you get the dosage that you want and be more personal. And also like, if you want to just take your kreatin or take your potato or take whatever, maybe you were an off day from working out and you just want to take your pre-workout to get all those things in to keep you note, to maintain those levels. Um, but you don’t want to get a bunch of caffeine with it. You know, I felt like this would be a good option.

Yeah, no, man. I respect to you, man, for, for all you’ve done, obviously you have a lot of experience and you’ve got a lot of, uh, success stories and transformation stories to back it up. And that, of course you, you’re the example yourself, man. So, uh, I really appreciate what you do. And I know you’re out there helping a lot of people, men, and at the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about. In my opinion, you know, I feel like we’re all on the same team. We all want to help people transform. We all want to help people make them better. Not just physically, but mentally, emotionally as well. That’s what it’s all about, man. So, uh, respect what you do lane, and we’ll have to have you back on again in the future. And uh, if you will put all of the links to the things you mentioned in the show notes, so people can access that. Cause I know there’s going to be a lot of people interested, especially, you know, now that we’ve had someone educate them on what flex flexible, flexible diet in dating is so

Awesome. Well, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on

And we’ll hopefully see you soon in Tampa. Uh, I’ll let you know if I make it out to metabolic therapeutics. Yeah, absolutely. Man. Have a good one.

You too. Take care.

Hey everyone. Thank you guys so much for tuning in to today’s episode. Really hope you learned a lot from it and um, go check Layne Norton. Now he’s a great guy and I’m a big fan of what he does and if it’s right for you, then go check it out. Go check out all of his stuff on flexible dieting. Also don’t forget about my, my six month fat to fit transformation program is now available. It’s been relaunched@transformdotfittibetfit.com and then also go show some love to our show sponsors, quest Kito, and drop an F bomb.com. You know, we wouldn’t be able to have this podcast without them as a sponsor. So I would really appreciate it. I do try and introduce you guys to products that I enjoy. I like that I take and I have my own testimonial of these products. And so, you know, I wouldn’t have a sponsor on unless I had, um, uh, my own testimonial that I use these products and I love them. So thank you guys so much for tuning in. Don’t forget to follow me on social media at Fitzroy at fit, sign up for my newsletter. So you stay in the know and we will see us back here next week for another great episode.

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